Too slow build.... help

Hi,

Fist of all thank you for sharing all the useful tips and specs.
We build up our first efoil based on what pacificmeister did, if @pacificmeister you’re here don’t hesitate to help.
We manage to make it waterproof and strong but we’ve got some very bad performance and we’re not even able to stand up on it. It just goes at around 3 mph…
We used the following part :
1 ESC firefly Arc200 which seems to work well
1 motor leopard hobby 56110 4 poles 640kv
4 lipo battery pack with 2 in serie and then parallel that gives us 12s at 16000mah
1 neugart PLE40 5:1
1 duct and propeller based on the stl file that pacificmeister gave on his first videos (can’t really remember which one).

We shaped the foil too (front and rear wings) , but we’re wondering why we have so bad performance.
What do you think ?

Thank you,

Matt

Making a video might be helpful. As well as getting some data from the ESC.

Ok no vids but some photos… I’ll post them…

For the ESC : https://freeflyrobotics.com/products/arc200

Ducted Proppeler diam 14,2cm

Foil


Wings
Front : 62cm wide by 22, 1 cm thick



We have max 27000/5 =5400rpm when we use it outside of the water

And what rpm when the prop is submerged?

I would guess on a bad solder joint.
Especially in the high current circuit. Probably even from the ESC to the motor. Probably a phase.
Did you properly remove the paint from the wire before soldering the motor connections?

The ARC200 has a current limiting function, what are the parameters you configured it?
Do you have a log of your ride?

This is the most likely cause. You need to set up the phase and battery currents to 150A. I found when I had mine set to a max of 100A I was just under speed to pop the foil.

Hard to tell what the reason is from remote but some poeple in the forum had problems with slip of the coupler under load.

Thank you for your replies!
V_S we had these kind of issues last year and we burned one motor and one esc. So this time we cleaned everything, sand the connections and sold them well.
Jezza, Giga we don’t have the values of the rpm in the water yet but we should be able to retrieve in the logs. We setup the arc200 esc but we didn’t pay attention to the limit it could be that! We ll check that tomorrow, thank you so much…

@Giga , we may have some limitation as you mentioned it !
But don’t really know how to set up everything to prevent from burning motor and esc.
Here’s my conf, would you be able to help us ? I can see some 50A max in the conf that may need to be changed :

Blockquote
comboParam$Control Mode$Speed Mode (RPM)
numericParam$Current Command Offset$-0,15$A/(VDC * PWMdec)
numericParam$Torque-Forward-Only Regen Foldback Start-Below PWM$2$% PWM
numericParam$Smart Reversal Threshold$10$A
numericParam$Smart Reversal Time$10$ms
comboParam$Input Throttle Mode$PWM Throttle on Encoder Line
numericParam$Input Throttle Min$900$ms if in PWM
numericParam$Input Throttle Zero Neutral$1002,312$ms if in PWM
numericParam$Input Throttle Deadband$250$+/- (ms if in PWM)
numericParam$Input Throttle Max$1977$ms if in PWM
numericParam$Input Brake Min$0$
numericParam$Input Brake Max$65535$
numericParam$Throttle Expo$0$%
comboParam$Sensored vs. Sensorless$Sensorless
comboParam$Sensorless Speed-Mode Startup$Ramp Mode
comboParam$Sensorless Torque-Mode Startup$Jitter Start
comboParam$Sensored Mode$3 Hall Sensor
numericParam$Sensored Offset$1$
comboParam$Sensored Hall Code$A (120 deg)
numericParam$Sensored Abs. Encoder Min$0$
numericParam$Sensored Abs. Encoder Max$65535$
numericParam$Sensorless Transition Start$100000$RPM
numericParam$Sensorless Transition End$150000$RPM
numericParam$Quadrature Cal Current$0$A
numericParam$Pole Pairs$2$Pairs
numericParam$Resistance$11,7449$mOhms
numericParam$Inductance$6,040223$uH
numericParam$KV$0,0009629073$Vp/RPM
comboParam$Direction Reverse$No
numericParam$Overvoltage Cutoff$50,4$V
numericParam$Overvoltage Foldback Start$50$V
numericParam$Undervoltage Cutoff$38,4$V
numericParam$Undervoltage Foldback Start$40,8$V
numericParam$Max Battery Draw$50$A
numericParam$Max Battery Regen$50$A
numericParam$Max Phase Accel Current A$0$A
numericParam$Max Phase Accel Current B$0$A
numericParam$Max Phase Accel Current MIN$50$A
numericParam$Max Phase Accel Current MAX$50$A
numericParam$Max Phase Accel Available With Throttle$50$A
numericParam$Max Phase Regen Current A$0$A
numericParam$Max Phase Regen Current B$0$A
numericParam$Max Phase Regen Current MIN$50$A
numericParam$Max Phase Regen Current MAX$50$A
numericParam$Max Phase Regen Available With Throttle$50$A
numericParam$ESC Temp Cutoff$95$Deg C
numericParam$ESC Temp Foldback Start$85$Deg C
comboParam$Retransmit Commands via CAN as Primary?$No
comboParam$Disable BTLE$No
numericParam$Forward RPM Foldback Start$40000$RPM
numericParam$Forward RPM Foldback End$50000$RPM
numericParam$Reverse RPM Foldback Start$40000$RPM
numericParam$Reverse RPM Foldback End$50000$RPM
numericParam$RPM Closed Loop 1$333$RPM
numericParam$RPM Closed Loop 2$166$RPM
numericParam$Jitter Speed 1$30$RPM
numericParam$Jitter Speed 2$60$RPM
numericParam$Jitter Frequency$10$Hz
numericParam$Jitter Current Multiplier$3$x
numericParam$Jitter Advancement Time$10,0$ms
numericParam$Ramp Current$50$A
numericParam$Ramp Rate$1000$RPM/s
numericParam$DQ Park Filter$0$ms
numericParam$Super-DQ Park Filter$5$ms
numericParam$Q-Current Int A$0$V/(A-s)
numericParam$Q-Current Int B$0$V/(A-s)
numericParam$Q-Current Int MIN$3,34003$V/(A-s)
numericParam$Q-Current Int MAX$3,34003$V/(A-s)
numericParam$Q-Current Proportional$0,05011298$V/A
numericParam$D-Current Int A$0$V/(A-s)
numericParam$D-Current Int B$0$V/(A-s)
numericParam$D-Current Int MIN$3,34003$V/(A-s)
numericParam$D-Current Int MAX$3,34003$V/(A-s)
numericParam$D-Current Proportional$0,05011298$V/A
numericParam$Q-Current Int Startup$3,34003$V/(A-s)
numericParam$Q-Current Proportional Startup$0,05011298$V/(A-s)
numericParam$RPM Deriv Filt$0$ms
numericParam$Super-Diff$0$Vs^3/RPM
numericParam$Forward RPM Command Max$30000$RPM
numericParam$Reverse RPM Command Max$30000$RPM
numericParam$Slew Up A$0$RPM/s
numericParam$Slew Up B$0$RPM/s
numericParam$Slew Up MIN$80000$RPM/s
numericParam$Slew Up MAX$80000$RPM/s
numericParam$Slew Down A$0$RPM/s
numericParam$Slew Down B$0$RPM/s
numericParam$Slew Down MIN$80000$RPM/s
numericParam$Slew Down MAX$80000$RPM/s
numericParam$KP Up A$0$A/RPM
numericParam$KP Up B$0$A/RPM
numericParam$KP Up MIN$0,05$A/RPM
numericParam$KP Up MAX$0,05$A/RPM
numericParam$KP Down A$0$A/RPM
numericParam$KP Down B$0$A/RPM
numericParam$KP Down MIN$0,05$A/RPM
numericParam$KP Down MAX$0,05$A/RPM
numericParam$RPM Integrator$0$A/(RPM-s)
numericParam$RPM Integrator Max$0$A
numericParam$Thrust Drag$0$A/RPM^2
numericParam$Angle P Gain$1$RPM/Deg
numericParam$Angle D Gain$1$RPM-command/RPM
numericParam$Flux VIR HPF$500$ms
numericParam$Flux VIR LPF A$0$ms
numericParam$Flux VIR LPF B$0$ms
numericParam$Flux VIR LPF MIN$10$ms
numericParam$Flux VIR LPF MAX$10$ms
numericParam$Sensorless Angle Filter$4$ms
numericParam$Speed Filter$6$ms
numericParam$Minimum Diff Flux$0,0011495$Delta-Wb
Blockquote

Thank you

Set the following:

numericParam$Max Battery Draw$150.0$A
numericParam$Max Phase Accel Current MIN$150.000$A
numericParam$Max Phase Accel Current MAX$150.000$A
numericParam$Max Phase Accel Available With Throttle$150.000$A

You shouldn’t burn anything. The ESC can handle a max phase current of 200A so 150A sits underneath that.

That should do the trick! :slight_smile:

Indeed it did the trick ! We set it up with 150A instead of 50 and we had something really powerful by 3 or 4 times… And we stood up.
Thank you so much for your advises guys !

Cheers,

Matt

1 Like

be carefull with your lipo , 150Amax for 16A battery is a lot, espacially at the end to pop of the water, test several settings by keeping motor around 130-150A and lower the battery max until you see a change at desired top speed or punch to take off…

Hi Alex, thank you for the advice. If I undertstood how it works, my 4 packs have their C value set to 30. So I should be ok until 30x16 => 480 A no ?

yes ,and that what is written on it, just try them, stop a few time and check temp, at the end if they are hot and swell , lower your settings

you cannot expect to pull 10, 20,30 times the capacity, and that will go right everytime, end that assuming that soldering, plugs and wires stand already 150a

the main question is at the end when 4-5A is left in the pack do you think you can have 480A or 30x5A: 150A max ? ( i don’t know the answer but my lipo took fire)

one example:

i was using turnigy green lipo given for a constant 10C , my pack was a 32a 8s, i had pic (motor) up to 250A on takeoff, i needed at least 90A to takeoff slowy, under 3.7v/cell i wasn’t able to take off anymore, i had to wait 10min to let the lipo cool down to finish them
one time i was too far and too lazy to paddle back to shore so i laid on the board and slowly went back to shore, my esc did’nt cut off at 3.2v/cell and 2 lipo took fire