Timing Belt Reduction


#43

Dear Nathan,
This would only happen if something rigid caught the prop. In the case of friction of the propeller in the water this type of belt will not slip but protect the motor and consequently the damage.
In practice this already happens with some heavy work tools with this type of belt.
Regards,
Ivan


#45

Thanks @Ivan. I don’t have experience with these belts and pulleys. What do the pulleys for these belts look like and do these work without a 3rd tensioner wheel? No room for a 3rd wheel. But for tension I can update the model to create any type of belt tension and with the 2 parts design I can lever a belt to any tension during assembly without problems. FYI, I am using these pulleys right now:


#46

It’s a pleasure to try to help,
This type of pulley is very efficient and ensures that the belt stays on the rails. A tensioner is not required. Just make the mechanism with the correct distance between the pulleys.
Another important point is that any simple winch is capable of producing this type of pulley with the exact diameter you need, because all the work of the mill is circular and in the same direction.
If possible for you, I suggest that you go to an electric tool store and ask to see up close an electric planer that works with this type of pulley and pulley. This can greatly help you to see the operation and feel the necessary tension of the belt with your own hands.

s-l500

Links:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pcs-Power-Tool-Planer-Cutter-Head-Pulley-for-Makita-1900-Electric-Planers/282827749303?epid=932360055&hash=item41d9d8f7b7:g:t- hello guys xab9nE


#47

But this type of belt needs quite high tension to transfer torque without slipping. This high tension gives a lot of radial load to the bearings.

Why you use belt anyway? Why not gears, efficency would be better.

If you use belt, check for HTD (high torque drive) belt type. I think a HTD 5 with 15-20mm belt width should be able to handle the torque.

https://www.megadyneamericas.com/high-torque-belts/


#48

Thanks for the details @Ivan, I will consider it. Let’s see Joan the next belt holds up.

@Toto44 thanks. I thought about gears but wasn’t sure what types and how the speed ratings are. I also didn’t like the idea of grinding noisy gears (as in the planetary gears), the belts run pretty quiet, probably even quieter with the belt Ivan suggests. But can you recommend gears? I was trying to find the HTD5 belts/pulleys in that size without luck, I am using them on the skateboard.


#49

Check here they have it all and where i buy most my stuff

http://www.sdp-si.com/index.php


#50

In case you want to try gears, I would recommend a steel gear on the motorshaft, and a nylon gear on the propshaft.
Here you can get what is necessary:

http://www.atlantadrives.com/pinions.htm

I think Module 1,5 can handle the forces…


#51

Hi Toto44,

I would never do a nylon pulley for a belt that will work at great rpm. The nylon simply melts!
Aluminum or brass are easy to work on the cutter and withstand high temperatures.

You can even make circular holes in the part to decrease the weight and possibly the temperature caused by the friction with the belt.


#52

In reference to the nylon gear, I believe @Toto44 is talking about using spur gears (no pulleys involved). Utilizing a steel gear with a nylon gear will reduce noise and friction in the system over using two steel gears.


#53

Dear nmcma,
Even for spur gears, high rotation on nylon does not work. Any inaccuracy of fit will cause friction / heat / melting of the material.


#54

If you’ve done it then you know better than I do. I haven’t, I’m basing this on intuition.


#55

Hello Ivan,
Small steel pinion and big nylon gearwheel works best. I am flying model helicopter and a design and built them. With a 14:112 gear reduction these electrical helicopter can Transfer up to 12Kw peak power and around 3Kw continious. Nothing is melting.


#56

Indeed great idea to checkout 600, 700 type helicopter reduction gear. Such this:

GARTT 700 Main Gear Fits Align Trex 700 RC Helicopter
http://s.aliexpress.com/6VjiIr6r?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard

2PCS GARTT 700 Drive Gear For Align Trex 700 RC Helicopter
http://s.aliexpress.com/qMzYjMBr?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard


#58

E skate builders use 3d printed gears or Nylon and steel and even steel on steel gears. All with great success rates. Some run with grease some not. Extreme high torque on starting up and slowing down. And there is no problems with them.
No problems with heat. Water is much better cooler than air so would help a lot with gears.

Rather than the gearing being offset to the side. Some E skate builders are running internal gear against the outer gear. This would help make a slimline build for E foil with less drag than an offset.
Some photos below
Top photo is offset gearing
Whilst bottom is internal gearing

0d2c0bcd7dcb4498bba6269086722f10ae4a70b8_1_500x500a371d5cab17ac9896be33568371b236a84223458_1_375x500


#59

Hi Pacificmeister,

why are your pla parts not waterproof? I’ve seen that my pla parts they leak water for many days after i wash them, but my printer was not working fine. Are you printing your PLA parts 100% fill or other filling settings?
I love the idea of getting rid of Gearbox… It would lower the overall price of those buildings. Keep up the excellent work.
Cheers.


#60

Hi Totto44,
They are different systems and forces. But if you really believe that nylon works just test. Certainly a long life will not have.


#62

Yeah that looks good. It could be even more compact with the drive gear inside the ring of the prop gear if you get what I mean?


#64

I really like the idea of an internal ring gear. Tricky part will be getting it precise enough if 3D printed and the bearing for the output shaft so close to the motor shaft. I’m going to look into this further also.


#66

Wow that was a quick mock up. Good work and
As it has to be supported on one side, prop side, the thickness of the materialof the gear ring would have to increase.
Agreed, KISS ( keep it simple stupid) if we had a direct drive system with perfect inrunner motor then we wouldn’t have to think of all these elaborate systems.


#67

I like this too. Looks like I am the only one that tests the waterproof 100kv alien motor. I think our issues all come down to the right prop.