12s Vs 18s setup

Maybe because it’s hard to find a affordable ESC that can handle 18s :sunglasses:

You’re gonna need a lot more power than foiling - and foiling makes you addicted :innocent:

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There are a few ones from FLIER. Rated up to 24s and 200A I think. Cost around 200€. Not so much more then one for 12s. I can share them if you want :slight_smile:

And jup, I know I need a lot more power to ride foilless. I just have absolutely not reference. So I have no Idea whether the 80100 motor is capable of getting me planing on a foilless board :sweat_smile:

Depending on what prop you use, you’ll need something that’s capable of up to 10kw of power to get you to a really decent speed. The 65161 195kv motor from flipsky paired with a prop of around 110mm should do a really good job I think. Then a ESC capable of 14S and 200-300A would work well.

I don’t trust the chinese values - take half and maybe it’s true :hot_face:

Depends on how well the board glides - so size and shape matters - with 65kg it’s easier - and last but not least how fast you like to run :surfing_man:

why exactly this motor? According to the specs it can deliver up to 6000W in comparison to the 80100 from APS which delivers up to 7000W.
I think the 65161 flipsky motor is also available in 100kv. Why would you choose the 195kv version?

My concern is that the 80100 motor is not capable of getting me planing on the water without a foil. Thats why I thought mybe an 18s setup with the same motor would be the solution :sweat_smile:
But now I am not sure anymore if thats the right attempt of getting more power…

Oh man, I thought FLIER is a good choice for ESCs:sweat_smile:

That’s just Flipsky being lazy with spec sheets. The motor is actually rated at 8100W of power for the 195kv. The motor will be able to get you on the plane and its waterproof so there’s less effort when fitting it to the board.

My c80100 with 500a flier esc can take 10kw. No idea for how long but it should work for a surfboard without foil

It should get you planning all right, in fact, even with the foil, we need to get planning before flying and at lower speed, the foil doesn’t help much.
What will make the most difference is the board: you can paddle a longboard to a pretty good speed with your arms, not so much with a shortboard.
If you plan on building the surfboard from scratch, may be aim at building one that can do both: foil and surf.

If you have a lot of confidence in keeping everything waterproof and insulated, you can try 18S, it’ll lower the current, which might not be a bad thing as with a surf configuration it’ll stay high, not drop as soon as you start flying.
But make sure your 80kv is really 80… mine was bought as a 80, but is more like a 100…
and if you go for 18s, may be a 50kv is more suitable…

The board will definitely be a compromise for surfing and foiling. And recently I saw a video from @PowerGlider. Seems like he is surfing alright and he is using an even smaller motor. I’ll give it a try, if it’s not working it will simply be used for foiling only. Or maybe dual 80100 motors with plenty of power in the future :smirk:
My plan is to try the setup on an old windsurfing board first and later I will build a custom board.
Why is it so important to keep everything well insulated? Will bulletconnectors at the motor wires submerged in water work?
I mean: short motor wires connected to longer wires (connectors not waterproofend) going up the mast and into the electronics box.
That way it would be really easy to unplug and remove the motor from the motormount

It may work, if there is no leak for the electricity to form a loop, otherwise you will get shocked. 18S might kill you, it is not safe in water. 12S hurts already. I would not build something with more than 12S. And i make sure, the battery and ESC box are completely watertight and use watertight cables to go to the motor. Inside the motor and it connections there may be some very small leakage, but nowhere else, so there is no loop the current can go. If you use unprotected plugs beneath each other it will corrode.
Why do you want to remove the motor from its mount? Thats lot of work with sensitive leads going into the motor. Get an additional mast, thats what i am going to do. The motor and leads stay with the mast, they are one unit.

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I’m sorry, I don’t understand your concept. How will you be able to convert between surf and foil configuration when your motor stays attached to one mast?
If I want to foil, the motor has to be attached to the mast of the foil.
If I want to surf the motor has to be attached to a different mount. Like what you did with the surfboardfin.
I thought I could unbolt the motor from the mount, then disconnect the motor leads from the leads going up the mast. Remove the mast. Put on the other mount. And then reattach the motor.
Bulletconnectors wouldn’t be waterproof but that way it would be very simple to remove the motor from the mast. Or maybe I could make completely waterproof connectors?!
Whatever. I didn’t knew that the the 3 phased motor leads are dangerous. I thought only the connection between batterie and ESC is dangerous
Or did I get it wrong? Please correct me @PowerGlider

you can either make some waterproof connectors like that for example:Low cost and easy waterproof connectors - Electronics (ESC, remote, batteries) - FOIL.zone
or you can use bullet connectors and wrap them with some good electrical tape, or use some adhesive lined shrink tubing…shrink tubing is a bit more painful to remove though…

Oh wow that idea is genius :sweat_smile: so simple but effective. Exactly what was missing​:ok_hand:
Thanks @Mat for this note

okok, my swapping is meant between windsurffoiling and efoiling. For my esurf i already have a working setup (with 6384), so no need to swap the motorprop between mast and fin.
I find it very hard to construct your concept, because one needs rather small and watertight connectors for the motor, because the space is limited by the mounting screws.
One more tipp: Do not make the fin too short, a distance between prop and board is needed to prevent air being sucked in which decreases thrust immediately.

Ok now I get it. So you only have the esurf setup. And for an efoil you would use a second motor.
Can you tell me what your speed on the esurf usually is? Is it enough for proper planing on the water? And how is the handling?
And thanks for the advice with the sucked in air. Wouldn’t have thought about that :sweat_smile:
I know my plan to build a convertible board for surfing and foiling is complicated but I will inform you when it’s working :ok_hand:

Handling is very dependent on the board. Over the years i had 4 different. The more narrow, the more insensitive it reacts on your inputs. I lately used a BIC 293 OD which i will also use for the foil. It is a little bit sensitive in speed regarding your longitudinal weight distribution, but much more easy to turn. Speed is around 21km/h at 3.5-4kW, depends on drivers weight. With the more narrow, longer boards you can also go longer distances without planning, but its hard to turn, especially at lower speed it just runs one direction: forward :wink:

Wow that sounds quite impressive, especially for the motor you are using. I’m so hyped to esurf. I think that’s even more fun then efoil :smirk: We will see how my plan works out.
Is it important to keep the three motor leads insulated? I mean is there any danger if they short out ?

If the cables short your esc is likely to die. If it is a “soft” short by the winding all the cables might suffer.
If the winding is not properly connected you get a higher resistance. At the 6384PG and all other motors i have bought, the winding is made of fine wires, around 30, so a single interruption is not the end.
A single short might be the end.
An opened isolation means you will be shocked if there is a second leakage and you bridge it with your hands, feet, nose, whatever. In almost dry conditions when you sweat, 12S will make it impossible to grab and turn a tool when the current goes through your hand only (not through the body). 18S is out of scope from my point of view.

I solve this problem by staying at 12S and not allowing a second leakage. And i try to avoid by constructive means to have a first leakage at the motor. Motor and mast are the higher risk. I will run the motor cable from the VESC in the battery box directly to the motor pod where i have an insulated soldering, no more interfaces like watertight 3 phase plugs. They always worked well, but are too thick.